welcome everybody to Seattle bike blog
I am your editor Tom Fucoloro and

I'm with Roxy Robles who just conducted
a survey of women trans femme and gender

non-conforming people who in Seattle and
asked them how comfortable they feel at

different Seattle bike shops and we just
released the results this week

Roxy want to tell people a little bit
about yourself sir my name is Roxy I am

a cyclist as you can imagine I'm an
urban planner and I really love making

Filipino food sounds good
so there the survey is called splain is

that an acronym for something yes
it stands for Seattle peddler's looking

for action to inform and it definitely
doesn't come from any patriarchal way of

talking to people okay I'm sure nobody
picked up on that yeah so maybe just

briefly let's talk about the shape of
the survey like what how it was

collected and you know the methodology
that went into it and then we'll talk a

little bit about why okay yes so the
survey was developed with Google Forms

it's a pretty easy way to just
distribute something and each shop had

kind of a call out in the survey with
its address and then there was a space

at the end of the survey for people to
leave pick up the feedback or any kind

of comments that they wanted to and
within the survey respondents were asked

to rank each shop from one to five with
one being I don't feel comfortable here

and five being I do feel comfortable
here and then all of the responses kind

of went into a spreadsheet and
we crunched the numbers weighted them

and divided by the number of responses
and we got these average ratings for

each shop so we've got the chart up on
the screen now and I'm going to zoom out

and might be hard to read it especially
if you're on a phone but essentially can

you explain a little bit about what will
how to read this chart sure and so on

the right side you see that there's a
legend blue green yellow orange and red

indicate the different kind of levels of
reading and then each shop has a bar and

so the proportion of the bar in each
color represents the percentage of the

ratings that were you know 5 4 3 2 or 1
and then at the end of each bar is the

number of responses of that shop
received so for example you can see that

free-range cycles had 52 responses and
the Seattle BMX had four so you know

this survey isn't perfect since it's
qualitative and there's a wide range of

how many people gave answers for each
shop but it gives you an idea of how

people feel in these spaces yeah yeah
and then that's we'll get into some of

the caveats about the data in a little
bit but yeah in general the longer the

bar the higher the average rating yeah
and then the number that's written in

there is the number of votes they got
and so that was sometimes that takes a

little bit of reading into you guys I
think it's a really like informational

packed chart to do it this way but yeah
I know I'm first glance sometimes people

don't understand that the length of the
bar isn't the number of votes yeah so

yeah well thank you so I guess let's go
back to

kind of rewind a little bit then why did
you come up with the idea to do this survey

like where did that idea come from
and yeah what kind of I guess what were

what were you hoping to accomplish with
it I mean initially just started as a

component of a class that I'm teaching
in the spring introduction to bike

touring for femme people and I wanted to
make sure that if I'm getting people

excited about bike touring if I'm
getting people excited about riding

their bikes that when I send them out
into the world that they have a safe

place to go you know when they need
repairs wanna buy a bike etc so I

thought I would do the survey and just
kind of keep it internal to myself in

this class but then when I started
talking about it with more people and

distributing it people just really
really wanted to see the results and a

lot more people than I expected and
wanted to have it published in them kind

of a more public way so I got inspired
to you know contact you and start

working with you and make the results
public yeah great oh thanks so much for

reaching out to me yeah yeah it was

there's a crying baby in the background
just to acknowledge that people toddlers

having a nap time and that's just that's
just gonna be the way this video this is

real

poor kid oh yeah yeah I mean immediately
when do you sent me the initial survey

and said can you help distribute the
survey to two more people and we

included in the bike news roundup in it
I might have said something on Twitter

about it I actually kind of forget if I
did or not

I know cascade bicycle club did as well
so you clearly were emailing it the link

around remember when I saw they go
that's gonna be I immediately recognize

it as let to be really interesting
because what comes from this and so when

you reached out to to kind of to put the
results out there I was pretty excited I

was also pretty nervous and you wrote in
your blog post that you were a little

nervous as well I guess can you explain
why I think that just in the history of

you know when things are uncovered from
kind of like a feminist perspective or

any kind of perspective that isn't you
know part of being a white cisgender man

that there's just typically pretty
violent like backlash I didn't expect

that anybody would be extremely worked
up about this or anything but you just

never know when you kind of prod at male
anxieties what is going to happen so

yeah I was really nervous about what
this might bring up for people and being

that most of the shop owners in town are
white men I yeah this is like probably

very pointed at them and I was also very
nervous because it's not like owning a

bike shop is you know necessarily like a
huge money-making endeavor I don't know

that there are any billionaire bike shop
owners maybe maybe there are I don't

know but you know this I have compassion
that this is someone's livelihood in

that this is
someone's these are small businesses so

it was a it's difficult to want to point
out kind of flaws or maybe places where

their service could improve because that
could affect their bottom line it could

affect you know families yeah yeah and I
guess we could talk about you know being

worried about canceled culture and you
know the idea well we put these out and

someone will say well we're boycotting
the shop then right yeah kind of because

you said that that's not what you want
people to take away from the survey no I

I think that canceled culture in many
forms can be pretty destructive and it

leaves it doesn't leave space for people
to internalize whatever you know change

they're being asked to make or
internalize whatever you know wrongdoing

that they've done and do better so I
really did not intend for this to be any

kind of you know I I hope no boycotts or
anything come out of this I've gotten a

lot of feedback from shop owners that
they want to take this seriously and and

I just hope it can affect change yeah
and yeah something that has come up a

lot is the you know the idea of
community and the idea that a bike shop

could be the center of community but
also that your community is more than

just white men yeah and that if you're
catering just to white men then you're

missing out on a huge portion of the
community so I guess you know to kind of

get back to you know why do the survey
like what are the I guess just what are

the common experiences that people
report that that leave them feeling

either disrespected or unempowered or
just having a negative experience makes

them not want to go back to a shop like
yeah and I should say that when I talk

about these experiences
I know that they're not relegated to

only them people that I have heard a lot
of feedback from people that they have

similar experiences even if they are
kind of able bodied white men so I mean

I think the things that I was reacting
to and starting this survey and that

I've heard from friends is that you know
a lot of times if you're a femme person

or if you maybe like a beginner even by
bike shop employees can just ignore you

they won't take your requests or needs
seriously they might they just maybe

won't ask questions about this bike that
you've brought in like this is I've had

just really bad advice given to me in
this really pedantic and patronizing way

about a bike that like I know and like I
know enough about bikes to know that

that's bad advice but someone just kind
of authoritatively saying this is the

way this needs to be is and not asking
me any questions about my needs I think

it's just was rude and that bad practice
I think of your professional providing a

professional service so yeah just being
ignored being talked down to

and being talked over is really common I
think just like if you're you can't get

a a word in edgewise with people that
just seem to need to tell you how much

more important their expertise is which
sure not everybody's the same type of

mechanic or you know obviously these
shops have a lot to offer but it's just

like they're not asking questions about
someone's needs just because they look a

certain way is really really frustrating
yeah well so I did a followup with

Shawna from free-range cycles
I should and I we actually posted this

story at the same time as the as the
survey because our conversation Shawna

was just everything like it's funny like
sometimes you write a you know I'm

reporting a story it takes a lot of work
to take you know my notes from a

conversation and put them into a a good
story and this one took me like two

seconds because I basically just like
put a quote at the beginning I'm gonna

put at the end just cuz you know
everything was important and insightful

and I think informative and I really you
know anyone like there's like one of the

easiest things that I think bits of
advice that she had that anyone can do

starting today is like when someone
walks in the door you know you drop all

your assumptions and even if you think
you know the answer ask the question

anyway ask you just ask tons of
questions about you know how how

experienced are you what are your goals
like what are you yeah you know rather

than assuming that you know based on
their appearance or how they're

presenting or even the bike they bring
in um that just ask questions even if

you think you know yeah because you
might often not actually know yeah um

people in different goals yeah and even
about like yeah like one that Shawna

brought up asked you know it's like are
there times when you make mistakes and

Shawna said well I have this tendency
to assume that people are trying to save

money and I've had to unlearn that one
and say no I like investing my bike so

why would I assume that someone else
doesn't want to invest in their bike if

she had to stop assuming that they don't
want to spend money that's insulting if

you're trying to spend money

yeah yeah yeah those funny it was good I
really like that yeah oh but there's

just there's so much in here just just
good advice that you know it's one of

those things where you know some of it's
common sense but maybe you just don't

think about it and some of it is
well it's not it it's not something that

just comes naturally or not it's
something that's practiced yeah and I

thought that was really really good
advice that they talked about it all the

time in the shop about how can we do
better and it's not it's like a core

piece of their daily operations is to
discuss being more welcoming and making

sure that as soon as someone walks in
that they get what they need yeah and

that we don't have negative interactions
and you don't leave frustrated in and I

think that's why they did so well and
why so many people went out of their way

to give those kudos to that bike shop
because you know they had so many

responses in the survey and it's because
when you go in there you know you're

going to be welcomed and treated like a
human being like with with your own

experience and knowledge um in talking
to I had a lot of conversations this

week with bike shop owners since we you
know gave everybody a heads up about the

reading and let them know that this was
going to be published I talked to a lot

of bike shop owners this week and I
think a lot of them want to they wanted

to know you know like they were trying
to find some I kind of hit a nugget in

the data about like some silver bullet
for how they can make it better or like

did anybody mention names of you know
like mechanics and whatever but I mean

to Shawna's point about it being a
practice I don't think that this can in

a conversation I don't think that these
you know any of these issues are gonna

be solved with just like you know
putting up some poster about inclusivity

or something it's like something you
have to practice every day and you're

gonna mess up I mean I yeah I mess up
it's fine you just like talk about it

and keep moving on and keep you know
being better the next time right yeah so

anyone who
in the story I made sure that that we we

thanked you know everyone who
contributed to this survey but also any

shop owner manager employee who takes
time to really think about it and has a

conversation like on the shop floor
about it yeah and you know takes it

seriously and engages with it you know
thank you because it's it mean it is

hard work
you know when it's you know it might

take up time that you could be wrenching
right yeah yeah I think I hope that the

results suggest that that's valuable
yeah use up that time it's not a waste

well I mean the top three shops you know
free-range do you know and the by curry

you know free-range we learned that
that's part of their culture G&O is you

know kind of a family-oriented job so by
its nature kind of geared towards

beginners children you know people with
children and then the bikery is a you

know kind of a donation based teaching
space so by its nature you know the

mechanics and the people looking for
help are kind of learning from one

another and everybody's kind of teaching
one another so that involves asking

questions and being engaged with one
another and not kind of this you know

expert dynamic yeah yeah then the the
number four shop is bike works but that

was interesting because Shawna mentioned
that she worked at Bike Works both in

the shop and then running youth programs
and bike works as part of their mission

makes always makes time to talk about
inclusivity and equity and that you take

time out of your one time when you could
be wrenching yeah and you talk about

these things yeah you're very
intentional about it and so I think it's

you know Shawna is not the only person to
come out of Bike Works with this

mentality and it's kind of interesting
to have this organization sort of

seeding
all over the place to have this

mentality and have this practice in
their lives and yeah obviously this

practice is good whether you run a bike
shop or not right oh yeah everyone

should be doing this this survey was
just bike shops right and yeah if I

think I mention that in my blog post
it's like well so what you feel

uncomfortable in bike shops like you
have money to buy a bike but I it's

obviously about a lot more than bike
shops it's kind of about you know just

any kind of patronizing attitude or you
know patriarchal polish culture in

general that assumes you need certain
types of knowledge or certain types of

access to be any good at like a sport or
whatever it is and so of course this was

bike shop specific because bike shops
are discreet and I'm a cyclist but um it

applies to so many other things yeah
yeah providing this kind of feedback I

think this is a service you to to your
community and to the bike shops even if

it doesn't feel that way immediately
yeah you know I think that it is an

active community love I guess
it's true I did it because I love like

I've I've never had a community like
this before I lived in Seattle about

five years now and I feel like the last
two years have become really rooted here

because of cycling and the people that I
found here and I did this because I want

to bring more people into it and I think
like we can all help each other be more

inclusive and yeah I did do it out of
love

oh so the the survey is of 90 people's
responses and so a lot of our original

posts was basically caveats the survey
yeah here's what the survey doesn't say

yeah and that's not to say that's not
like a insult to the survey it's just a

almost like here's a list of follow-ups
for further study I mean like any

academic paper yeah has that list of
like for further research so I guess I'd

like to talk a little bit about you know
what things you think would be

interesting to know I'm not necessarily
saying that you should do but that

somebody should do I'm not trying to say
yeah but I guess like through this

process you know in some ways it raises
more questions I mean it starts a

conversation which means that you might
leave with more questions then you're

came in with I guess what are some of
those that stand out the things you'd

like to to know or things that you'd
like

I guess people to think about that art
that weren't actually addressed in this

hmm being able to isolate maybe how
beginners feel would be interesting I

mean I didn't collect any demographics
so any kind of isolating any kind of

demographic would be really interesting
because you know this survey was geared

towards it was kind of gender focused
people that are cisgender men but you

know it didn't capture anything about
race you know national origin or

anything like that so or body type or
age right I mean yeah the list could go

on and on and on so um any of those
intersections could be interesting at

the same time it's like you know we just
need to be like a it's a

professional service like you should be
you know welcoming people in so I don't

know what those demographics might what
else those my demographics might LS

sometimes it's like maybe I'm just I
just want to know I don't know yeah yeah

I feel like the conversation that it
starts is the important part of life

because the conclusion would be the same
well I mean not necessarily but yeah I'm

really curious about
how far shops take this mm-hmm

that's my good question and I don't
think it would make sense to redo this

survey annually because people don't
visit bike shops that many times in a

year but I it would be interesting to
run it again and at some point in the

future and also to figure out what shops
are like actually doing to address this

because I had a lot of conversations
this week about you know shop owners

saying like thank you so much and I'm so
excited to dig into the resources you

provided but you know that's a good
intention but you know like we talked

about this is a practice and this is
something that really does need to come

from leadership in a shoplicate
because they're setting the tone for how

people work in existence nice so that's
my biggest question just how are people

gonna really engage with this
information and have you heard from

people in any other cities who have seen
this and it's shown interest doing it

because I've seen I've seen some things
on social media there's some folks in

the East Bay okay um and I saw someone
in New York talking about it and I'm

interested to see I'm hopeful yeah I
would like to see other cities try

something like it yeah it's very
replicable so I mean I it to cyclist a

zine which is out of New York they're
kind of a DIY cycling zine perfor Femmes

and POC and I basically wrote about the
methodology so I'm hoping that it

inspires people to maybe do it in their
own towns

I don't Twitter so I feel very
disconnected from oh I envy you so much

don't join okay
it's I mean follow follow syllabi plug

on Twitter but also don't don't join
Twitter okay just makes you feel

terrible on everything
bummer have you very informed Twitter's

unfortunately I think why you feel
terrible interesting you know about why

the world sucks before anyone else does
yeah but that's nice to hear that people

are getting inspired to do it because it
was you know it took a lot of reminding

people like I said so many emails and
ping people on slack and you know just

trying to find new avenues over and over
but um it's very replicable if you have

the energy to send emails nice yeah
well great yeah because that's that's

the other another thing we talked about
is we okay we have these numbers and we

have no baseline to know what they think
is it is like if you look at like this

city is a holy was that good yeah you
had 90 people I'm pretty sure there's

more than 90 cyclists but you know I
had to that's the thing about starting

something yeah you can't be scared to
just start yeah um so yeah maybe night

90 isn't good and maybe these readings
are completely far off I don't think

they are though because just from my own
experience and what I've been hearing

from other people these readings kind of
reflect how people feel

yeah I've seen that a lot where people
look at it and they say yeah or some

people who says oh yeah we you know I
talked about this with my friends all

the time but it's so it's gratifying to
see it like exactly we've been talking

about yeah been replicated yes in this
way so Seattle's average was three point

four three which is above three so this
is like I have no you look is that good

yeah that a good average like did we do
well or is that really bad like I don't

know I mean it says that the you know
the majority of people's experiences at

bike shops are good that's above three
average are not uncomfortable

I'm sure yeah um so yeah I mean it's
just like we have no baseline to know

like it well we have one number now I
guess now we have a baseline

yeah people we don't we don't know how
that compares to other cities we don't

know how that compares to you know have
we done have we gotten better in the

past ten years yeah we don't know yeah
anecdotally I think we have but that's

what I've heard from people but I have
no idea yeah I'm like it should it

should be repeated at some point I just
I'm not sure yeah so if someone were to

walk into a shop and they're having a
negative interaction with someone other

than just leaving do you have any ideas
about what they can do about that um I

think yeah you can you're always allowed
to leave and sometimes it's hard when

you're worked up or potentially
triggered by something someone says to

kind of have the space in your mind to
have a like response ready but I think

some things at work are repeating what
they just said to you back and you know

if it's something like rude or
condescending be like you just said XYZ

is that what you meant or how am I
supposed to like feel about that

something like that I know it's like
easier to say mmhmm

to do these things then to do them
sometime

because of our social social contract to
not disturb one another like create

uncomfortable situations but yeah
repeating the same thing I mean if

they're being really rude we're ignoring
you you could just be like I'm gonna

need you to ask me with a different
attitude that's a really good one Mike I

guess my friend was pretty spunky I'll
say as a kid and her parents would use

that with her like you're gonna need to
ask me that again you're gonna need to

come to this interaction with a
different attitude if I'm gonna stay

here and because that you know if people
have the pattern because of whatever

prejudice or you know acculturation that
they have like they're just gonna be in

that groove or be in that pattern so
asking something like that can sometimes

take people out of it
yeah those are some things that I use

when people are getting on my nerves
yeah I guess it's a little it gets even

more complicated if they have your bike
and it is broken I want to leave here

but first I need you to I don't know
what the bike shop equivalent of like

spinning in a burger is right but I
don't want to know yeah well I've heard

uh packing repack someone's hub with
peanut butter instead of grease because

it works at first and then it stops
working yeah so if if you were to give

advice to you know where someone wants
to know hey my shop wants to work on

this are there any resources to kind of
help us what where would you point them

I think that it would be good for
leadership to do a self-assessment I

included resources at the end of the
blog post both on your blog and then

also
my blog for self assessments and so

these are kind of step by step ways to
interrogate how your business runs and

the degree to which it has inclusion as
a value and you know it's there's a lot

of resources out there now so it's if
you want to start doing something like

this and taking these actions it's you
know good resources aren't that hard to

find I also included a link to the brown
bike girl they are a bicycle advocacy

consulting group and also a fiquitiva
the same type of thing they can come and

these are people of color that will help
you in engage your business model and

kind of restructure your leadership to
be more inclusive grease rag bikes is

also another really great resource they
have a lot of really great resources on

their website and WTF bike Explorers are
doing a lot for femme and trans gender

non-conforming people in the bike world
and they recently released a cycling

pledge so you can sign on to the cycling
pledge and it just means that you're

gonna kind of adhere to a list of values
I don't think there's any way to kind of

put police that or whatever but you know
I think that having those values as a

reminder can be a really great way to
have conversations in the shop like okay

are we are we kind of are we
interrogating how we're treating people

are we bringing people into the fold in
a productive way first shops definitely

start I think with the self assessments
just give yourself like a baseline and

yeah hopefully grow from there
great okay so you are teaching a class

can tell me a little bit more about what
this class is and yeah I of course love

cycling and I love bike touring that's
like my main discipline if you want to

call it that and I think that the notion
of bike touring can be really

intimidating for people there are a lot
of kind of parts to it I definitely

didn't know where to start
when I started just kind of figured it

out so I'm teaching an introductory
class to bike touring for trans femme

and gender non-conforming people at
Seattle colleges through their

continuing education program it's gonna
be May 9th from 10 a.m. to 1 p.m. I

don't think that the registration is out
yet but look for it in their spring

catalog great and you also have a blog
of your own yes how can people find it

feels on wheels dot net yeah I write
about bikes and feelings great yeah

that's wonderful yeah um yeah well
thanks so much for taking time to talk

with me about this and for all the work
that you've put into gathering all the

information and you know working with me
to put it out on the stuff on the blog

and I think it's really valuable
I really appreciate there was hard work

yeah that's a lot a lot a lot of hard
work behind the scenes but I think that

I've been very happy with how the
conversation is gone since its come out

I think it's been it's already been
pretty effective and fruitful and I hope

that it this is just the start of
something yeah yeah I don't know what

but we'll see yeah yeah thank you for
your collaboration it was really easy

and I'm excited that I thought that I
gave you lots of work to do like I

thought it I was thought for sure one of
these times you're gonna send me back an

email saying like not gonna do that
my baby I wanted it out in the world so

yeah I'm also like yeah just like being
busy so okay great well thank you so

much thank you and thank you everybody
for watching